here ya go :)
C
You paged Zami with 'Heya'.
Zami pages: I was on Regent... I was Miyu/Harah/Huayi.
page zami=Perhaps I was confusing when i started talking about class1 and class2 characters right at the start. I was meaning them as distinctions between types of l2 characters - eg. a bodyguard while still an L2 is less 'important' than a mentat
You paged Zami with 'Perhaps I was confusing when i started talking about class1 and class2 characters right at the start. I was meaning them as distinctions between types of l2 characters - eg. a bodyguard while still an L2 is less 'important' than a mentat'.
page zami=And in answer to your question my worry is that having several L2 characters is more confusing to a newbie who is getting them all at once than to someone who is already established in one character and will be taking other ones as perhaps.. filler positions. Eg. Boris is planning to join Bajazet, but obviously boris is still his 'primary' character. I was suggesting grades of level2s as a way around that
You paged Zami with 'And in answer to your question my worry is that having several L2 characters is more confusing to a newbie who is getting them all at once than to someone who is already established in one character and will be taking other ones as perhaps.. filler positions. Eg. Boris is planning to join Bajazet, but obviously boris is still his 'primary' character. I was suggesting grades of level2s as a way around that'.
Zami pages: hmm... go on, how do you distinguish if a person is ready for another character? or would Boris be an L3?
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page zami=well forget Level1 characters for now... just think about level2s. what i meant was splitting all the roles into classes. eg. siridar, mentat, warmaster etc are class2. bodyguard, jnr diplo, gladiator are class 1 (all those would have been Level2s on regent right?) and then saying you can have 1 class 1 character and 1 class2 character. Though that may of course be unnecessary - but, it would help anyone new know who their primary character is...
You paged Zami with 'well forget Level1 characters for now... just think about level2s. what i meant was splitting all the roles into classes. eg. siridar, mentat, warmaster etc are class2. bodyguard, jnr diplo, gladiator are class 1 (all those would have been Level2s on regent right?) and then saying you can have 1 class 1 character and 1 class2 character. Though that may of course be unnecessary - but, it would help anyone new know who their primary character is...'.
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page zami=:is hoping he's making *some* sense :)
Long distance to Zami: Plessiez is hoping he's making *some* sense :)
Zami pages: what if their primary character is just a bodyguard... does that make them less worthy?
page zami=err no
You paged Zami with 'err no'.
page zami=rather what i meant was that there is less conflict of interest if your two landsraad characters are a mentat and a bodyguard, than if they are a mentat and a warmaster.
You paged Zami with 'rather what i meant was that there is less conflict of interest if your two landsraad characters are a mentat and a bodyguard, than if they are a mentat and a warmaster.'.
Zami pages: i only ask this because I know they asked this on regent.
page zami=:nods
Long distance to Zami: Plessiez nods
Zami pages: you were admin on Regent right before it closed right?
page zami=:shakes his head. "No, far from it :)"
Long distance to Zami: Plessiez shakes his head. "No, far from it :)"
From afar, Zami nods, "okay... curious if you were able to access some of the old admin discussions there... if you could have looked at those, you would have seen the comments I'm talking about."
page zami=I see. Well I'm blissfully ignorant i'm afraid. What exactly was discussed there? (I wasn't even aware that besides an L1 and an L2 you could have alts at all).
You paged Zami with 'I see. Well I'm blissfully ignorant i'm afraid. What exactly was discussed there? (I wasn't even aware that besides an L1 and an L2 you could have alts at all).'.
Zami pages: it had to do with the RP centered around the features... which I thought were called L3... but it's been so long I can't recall now.
page zami=I'm not one for beurocracy for the sake of it... not at all.. but I've seen twinks in action before :) (and at the moment we seem blessed with having no twinks - rather, responsible players who could easily juggle alts, but I doubt that that would remain if the player-base expands as planned)
You paged Zami with 'I'm not one for beurocracy for the sake of it... not at all.. but I've seen twinks in action before :) (and at the moment we seem blessed with having no twinks - rather, responsible players who could easily juggle alts, but I doubt that that would remain if the player-base expands as planned)'.
page zami=I vaguely remember that - the absence of features here is perhaps a 'good thing (tm)' though in that sense
You paged Zami with 'I vaguely remember that - the absence of features here is perhaps a 'good thing (tm)' though in that sense'.
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page zami=And I'm not implying that a mentat is more important than a jnr. diplo.. though perhaps I am.. since the OOC knowledge that you have is greater - and has a wider impact on how you subconciously play. For instance, for my part I probably wouldn't take a 'senior' character in another house because I would be wary of a subconcious conflict of interest.. rather, I'd take a character to RP internally in another house... (but maybe i'm just paranoid)
You paged Zami with 'And I'm not implying that a mentat is more important than a jnr. diplo.. though perhaps I am.. since the OOC knowledge that you have is greater - and has a wider impact on how you subconciously play. For instance, for my part I probably wouldn't take a 'senior' character in another house because I would be wary of a subconcious conflict of interest.. rather, I'd take a character to RP internally in another house... (but maybe i'm just paranoid)'.
From afar, Zami smiles, "being paranoid is okay."
page zami=Forget the whole premise of what i've been saying and come back to basics with me (I've never RPd anywhere with alts before either). so. someone has two characters in different houses, which are enemies. Most people don't RP on a scene by scene basis - they have plans for their character and also for their house... how do people reconcile the problems of one character wanting one thing and another character wanting another - and they personally having to choose one or the other to be successful. eg. if my diplo secures the alliance with X then my warmaster will be unable to do so-and-so, and therefore fails (example).
You paged Zami with 'Forget the whole premise of what i've been saying and come back to basics with me (I've never RPd anywhere with alts before either). so. someone has two characters in different houses, which are enemies. Most people don't RP on a scene by scene basis - they have plans for their character and also for their house... how do people reconcile the problems of one character wanting one thing and another character wanting another - and they personally having to choose one or the other to be successful. eg. if my diplo secures the alliance with X then my warmaster will be unable to do so-and-so, and therefore fails (example).'.
Zami pages: part of it has to do with trusting our players to want to RP, not just play to win a game.
page zami=Sure.. and i'm not disputing that our players are trustworthy - but, on the other hand i think an important part of RP *is* playing to win... (not to the destruction of everyone and everything else) but still.. people have goals - as a warmaster I have goals for myself and for House Bajazet.. there are conditions that it is my IC aim to meet. (I don't know if you knew taggart on D2 or Regent - but *there* was a man who set himself goals.. and almost never failed (i've talked to aurarius about him - we both hold him in awe *grin*)
You paged Zami with 'Sure.. and i'm not disputing that our players are trustworthy - but, on the other hand i think an important part of RP *is* playing to win... (not to the destruction of everyone and everything else) but still.. people have goals - as a warmaster I have goals for myself and for House Bajazet.. there are conditions that it is my IC aim to meet. (I don't know if you knew taggart on D2 or Regent - but *there* was a man who set himself goals.. and almost never failed (i've talked to aurarius about him - we both hold him in awe *grin*)'.
Zami pages: I knew Taggart... I also knew when he came here what he was like... and in many ways, his means kinda bullied the players around him into doing things that they really didn't want to.
Zami pages: so you see... there were pros and cons to some of what he did... I loved his work on Regent.
page zami=I loved him and loathed him - on D2 we crossed swords OOCly about his 'methods'. But, in terms of picking a goal and going for it he was a good example - most people aren't as ambitious, but most people have some goals or concepts of winning..
You paged Zami with 'I loved him and loathed him - on D2 we crossed swords OOCly about his 'methods'. But, in terms of picking a goal and going for it he was a good example - most people aren't as ambitious, but most people have some goals or concepts of winning..'.
page zami=Perhaps taggart was at the opposite end of that spectrum since he rather single mindedly went for his goals..
You paged Zami with 'Perhaps taggart was at the opposite end of that spectrum since he rather single mindedly went for his goals..'.
Zami pages: would such a person wish to take on an alt?
page zami=Interesting question.
You paged Zami with 'Interesting question.'.
page zami=Probably not... but then what about someone like me, who is more err. relaxed :) But has goals nonetheless and would also like to RP in a different house.
You paged Zami with 'Probably not... but then what about someone like me, who is more err. relaxed :) But has goals nonetheless and would also like to RP in a different house.'.
Zami pages: what position then would be right for you?
page zami=I think actually you've backed me round to the realisation that its basically up to the player :)
You paged Zami with 'I think actually you've backed me round to the realisation that its basically up to the player :)'.
page zami=As I said - i would probably go for a position that would give me interesting RP in another house without too much danger of conflicting with my 'primary' character. But then we're back at my original point about newbies with no concept of their first/primary character, and who are less aware of the problems of running alts.
You paged Zami with 'As I said - i would probably go for a position that would give me interesting RP in another house without too much danger of conflicting with my 'primary' character. But then we're back at my original point about newbies with no concept of their first/primary character, and who are less aware of the problems of running alts.'.
page zami=Now my head hurts :)
You paged Zami with 'Now my head hurts :)'.
Zami pages: remember... newbies does not mean necessarily translate to new to the MU* world or new to RP or immature.
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page zami=No.. I know that. If I'm sounding supercilious then its not intentional
You paged Zami with 'No.. I know that. If I'm sounding supercilious then its not intentional'.
From afar, Zami smiles, "it's okay... if you were a new player and I were a House head and you told me you were interested in playing, I'd give you a chance. If it turns out that you have another character and you're too busy with the other character to get involved with us here, I'd tell you that I need more of your time.
page zami=On the other hand, there are some appaling twinks around (and, for instance on D2, the harks had a policy of recruit anyone - their roster was huge. and there were some twinks who asked questions like 'well why can't i have another character in atreides?' etc. and its easier to have a rules based system than a 'because we don't like you' system :)
You paged Zami with 'On the other hand, there are some appaling twinks around (and, for instance on D2, the harks had a policy of recruit anyone - their roster was huge. and there were some twinks who asked questions like 'well why can't i have another character in atreides?' etc. and its easier to have a rules based system than a 'because we don't like you' system :)'.
Zami pages: as an Atreides head, would you hire that person?
page zami=:nods. "The only problem with that is that you have to recruit and sack characters and the rest of the house suffers if someone joins, does some RP, and then leaves stuff unfinished (although admittedly that's no worse than non-connecting characters)
Long distance to Zami: Plessiez nods. "The only problem with that is that you have to recruit and sack characters and the rest of the house suffers if someone joins, does some RP, and then leaves stuff unfinished (although admittedly that's no worse than non-connecting characters)
page zami=No... but not all FHs are selective. and pressing the big red retcon button isn't fun :)
You paged Zami with 'No... but not all FHs are selective. and pressing the big red retcon button isn't fun :)'.
Zami pages: i don't intend on doing retcon... tell me, how do you know if a person will not be able to handle it?
page zami=That isn't directed at FHs here or anywhere else in particular. Just that sometimes people seem group-happy
You paged Zami with 'That isn't directed at FHs here or anywhere else in particular. Just that sometimes people seem group-happy'.
page zami=You don't.
You paged Zami with 'You don't.'.
page zami=I wasn't suggesting turning down people or anything - i was trying to suggest a blanket rule that applies to everyone and gives opportunity but is fair at the same time
You paged Zami with 'I wasn't suggesting turning down people or anything - i was trying to suggest a blanket rule that applies to everyone and gives opportunity but is fair at the same time'.
Zami pages: how do you know a person can even handle 1 character? there are twinks running around right now and they only have 1.
page zami=:nods.
Long distance to Zami: Plessiez nods.
Zami pages: how do you deal with a person who is being twinkish in RP?
page zami=Thats a fair point. But you never really answered my point about goals and conflicts of interest... since i still believe that most people have goals for their character. wouldn't everyone really end up only RPing *one* character to their full potential ?
You paged Zami with 'Thats a fair point. But you never really answered my point about goals and conflicts of interest... since i still believe that most people have goals for their character. wouldn't everyone really end up only RPing *one* character to their full potential ?'.
page zami=You retcon the RP if necessary and ignore them from then on
You paged Zami with 'You retcon the RP if necessary and ignore them from then on'.
Zami pages: how about helping them to understand what they did wrong. as for the other question, it would depend upon what your goal is... my goal is and has always been singular, regardless of my character, to create a being that is so real, she/he comes to life on its own... if a player feels that there is a conflict or feels the fh feels it can't be handled, then the alt character is denied.
page zami=To the first part, I was referring to twinks who are twinks beyond hope :) Obviously, if someone would take advice, realise what they'd done wrong and be a better RPer for it then thats great
You paged Zami with 'To the first part, I was referring to twinks who are twinks beyond hope :) Obviously, if someone would take advice, realise what they'd done wrong and be a better RPer for it then thats great'.
Zami pages: I believe there is no one beyond hope.
page zami=To the second part - possibly not everyone has those goals. My goals are to feel that the game and its timeline is moving and that my character has a hand in it. I don't wish to RP purely for the sake of RP. (I could create a character who was sick and bedridden and only ever met his suk - and while that might make for an interesting alt character, it would not satisfy me for my main character.) I RP to shape *events* (and not vaingloriously.. I would be as happy planning a TP that caused the destruction of my house as one that caused the destruction of another. Just as long as the RP was causing change rather than simply leaving us spinning in circles
You paged Zami with 'To the second part - possibly not everyone has those goals. My goals are to feel that the game and its timeline is moving and that my character has a hand in it. I don't wish to RP purely for the sake of RP. (I could create a character who was sick and bedridden and only ever met his suk - and while that might make for an interesting alt character, it would not satisfy me for my main character.) I RP to shape *events* (and not vaingloriously.. I would be as happy planning a TP that caused the destruction of my house as one that caused the destruction of another. Just as long as the RP was causing change rather than simply leaving us spinning in circles'.
page zami=I believe that there are some people beyond hope until they have aged past 12, and read Dune ;)
You paged Zami with 'I believe that there are some people beyond hope until they have aged past 12, and read Dune ;)'.
From afar, Zami smiles lightly.
Zami pages: do you think that others who might feel this way would take on another character?
page zami=Yes.
You paged Zami with 'Yes.'.
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page zami=I intend to take on another character - because I enjoy RPing and RP in bajazet alone does not occupy me enough - and I think i'm a fairly competent RPer who can 'give' to the game. So i'd enjoy having another character so that if there are no Bajas connected I can go off and RP with some other people i wouldn't normally get to RP with
You paged Zami with 'I intend to take on another character - because I enjoy RPing and RP in bajazet alone does not occupy me enough - and I think i'm a fairly competent RPer who can 'give' to the game. So i'd enjoy having another character so that if there are no Bajas connected I can go off and RP with some other people i wouldn't normally get to RP with'.
From afar, Zami nods her head, "i see nothing wrong with that."
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page zami=and to follow with an example - if someone wanted to play a siridar and a warmaster that would suggest that either he will have to be a goal-less mentat and a goal-less siridar, or one character will end up suffering where the two conflict. That seems like a pretty good example of what concerns me
You paged Zami with 'and to follow with an example - if someone wanted to play a siridar and a warmaster that would suggest that either he will have to be a goal-less warmaster and a goal-less siridar, or one character will end up suffering where the two conflict. That seems like a pretty good example of what concerns me'.
page zami=Maybe I don't have the skills it takes to juggle alts effectively - perhaps I'm already too dedicated to one character.. (though I don't feel that its that.. I would sacrifice Haroon on a stake if i thought the RP would be great)
You paged Zami with 'Maybe I don't have the skills it takes to juggle alts effectively - perhaps I'm already too dedicated to one character.. (though I don't feel that its that.. I would sacrifice Haroon on a stake if i thought the RP would be great)'.
From afar, Zami nods.
page zami=Remember that i've never RPd anywhere with alts - so if someone has two characters with no conflict of interest and develops them both quite happily, and then due to the twists in the TPs they come into conflict, what should they do? Let one go? Let both go? Maybe because I've never tried it i don't understand fully
You paged Zami with 'Remember that i've never RPd anywhere with alts - so if someone has two characters with no conflict of interest and develops them both quite happily, and then due to the twists in the TPs they come into conflict, what should they do? Let one go? Let both go? Maybe because I've never tried it i don't understand fully'.
From afar, Zami smiles, "btw, you're asking very good questions. eventhough I'm continuing to ask the questions otherwise, I do see your logic in needing some sort of boundaries... I'm just not sure what yet."
page zami=Thats the thing - having thought it through more while talking about it, I don't think that any blanket rule will fit all players - since players have different styles, and as we've established, different ideas of what they want to get out of the game.
You paged Zami with 'Thats the thing - having thought it through more while talking about it, I don't think that any blanket rule will fit all players - since players have different styles, and as we've established, different ideas of what they want to get out of the game.'.
From afar, Zami is not completely sold that Regent had the best idea yet.
From afar, Zami wonders... "you know... this would make an awesome +poll to see what other players feel.
page zami=I just find it hard to imagine that it would be easy to play those two characters distinctly from each other. That was where my initial suggestion stemmed from - to lessen the potential for conflict. i dunno.. *sigh*
You paged Zami with 'I just find it hard to imagine that it would be easy to play those two characters distinctly from each other. That was where my initial suggestion stemmed from - to lessen the potential for conflict. i dunno.. *sigh*'.
page zami=Perhaps with a log on the site of our entire conversation for them to read? *grin*
You paged Zami with 'Perhaps with a log on the site of our entire conversation for them to read? *grin*'.
From afar, Zami chuckles, "that would mean I'd have to go access my cache.
page zami=If you *did* want this conversation though I could send it to you as a text file.
You paged Zami with 'If you *did* want this conversation though I could send it to you as a text file.'.
Zami pages: so I'd have to cut that part out... yes?
From afar, Zami nods, "sure, why not."