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Seminar: Character Profiles (10/14/98)

To: dune3-readers@fremen.org
Subject: Seminar: Character Profiles (10/14/98)
From: Zami Wahye <wahye@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-dune3-readers@foraker.research.att.com

Seminar focused on the development of a Character Profile.  Discussion begins around a Background of a fictional character "Joseph" and the development of the character.  It progresses into what some Faction Heads have seen are some opportunity areas for Character Backgrounds.


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Wed Oct 14 20:01:35 1998

Zami says, "okay... let's get started... if anyone else strolls on, they
can come join us and catch up later."

Zami says, "I called this seminar together to talk a bit about Character
Profiles and Backgrounds...."

Zami says, "First off, how many of you have created your Character
Profiles already?"

Praxton raises his hand-.

Rosler raises his hand too.

Gaijin says, "About 3/4..."

Nils raises his hand.

Zami nods, "excellent.... and how do people feel about their character
profiles?"

Gaijin says, "Pretty good, needs more detail."

Rosler is happy with his.

Zami says, "what do you think makes a good profile?"

Broncalo walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Broncalo has arrived.

Rosler says, "Being concise and sincere."

Gaijin says, "reasons why you're char acts a certain way."

Rosler says, "good grammar and spelling."
Rosler says, "etc."

Zami nods her head, "Good that's a start... Praxton, you said you were
happy with yours... why is that?"

Praxton says, "Well, it's brief, contains enough detail to be considered
thorough. A few truly creative sparks here and there..."

Zami says, "okay... why don't YOU folks help me build a character
profile for this character... his name is Joseph."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful and all
knowing. Don't mess with him.

Zami says, "so far... this is what's written... please tell me what's
wrong."

Gaijin says, "His attributes..."

Rosler lol.

Nils laughs.

Zami nods to Gaijin, "please... explain."

Slyp sighs

Nils says, "I think I had that person apply to Alvstad just the other
day."

Rosler where is his origin? His description, history? Weaknesses?

Gaijin says, "Noone is going to be omnipotent or omniscient... No need
to use superlatives."

Zami notes Gaijin has the floor at the moment.

Gaijin says, "Give him a few strong points, and weak ones to balance
him."

Rosler is laaging so he's sorry.

Zami says, "please... let's do this one at a time... in fact, anyone
ever play that game where you have the clock for a period of time and
build a story? why don't we use that format... each person in turn,
you TELL me how to reword it and develop the character."

Zami says, "give Joseph his strong point and weak one Gaijin."

Delanar walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Delanar has arrived.

Gaijin says, "Ok, he was very smart in school, but not very athletic."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. He was very smart in school, but
not very athletic.

Zami says, "Like this?: Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. He was
very smart in school, but not very athletic."

Gaijin says, "Yah...or....While in school, he learned fast, but no
matter how hard he tried, couldn't play the games the others could."

Zami says, "Okay.... Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. While in
school, he learned fast, but no matter how hard he tried, couldn't
play the games the others could."

Gaijin says, "Cool."

Zami says, "pass... who'd like to contribute next?"

Kirc walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Kirc has arrived.

Broncalo says, "Why's that, Gaijin? Why can't he play the game?"

Zami says, "hold up.."

Zami says, "for the new people who are arriving,let me explain what's going on...."

Zami says, "we're discussing character profiles and backgrounds...
before us in the room is the object 'Character Profile'. What I'd like
to do is each person in the room... contribute and add a part to the
Profile... point out where it's weak and add onto it to make it
stronger."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. While in school, he learned
fast, but no matter how hard he tried, couldn't play the games the
others could.

Zami says, "now... so far, Gaijin has gone... who would like to
contribute something to the profile next?"

Broncalo raises his hand.

Zami nods to Bronc... "add your contribution.

Broncalo says, "The son of an Imperial Noukker (a bastard child of an
Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some of the best schooling available on
Kaitain."

Zami says, "Like this?: character=Background: Joseph was born on
Kaitain. The son of an Imperial Noukker (a bastard child of an
Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some of the best schooling available on
Kaitain. While in school, he learned fast, but no matter how hard he
tried, couldn't play the games the others could."

Broncalo nods. "That's my snippet to add for the moment."

Zami nods and smiles.

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Zami says, "next??... what else is this profile missing?"

Nils asks, "When we say games, do we mean football and dodgeball and
various reindeer activities, or dueling, fencing, kendo...various
martial training activities?"

Zami looks to Nils, "Good point... what would you say Nils?"

Zami says, "and why is that important?"

Nils says, "An inability to properly duel would be a serious stumbling
block, both career-wise and self-esteem wise, for a student in
Sardaukar school..."

Delanar adds, "Why can't he play them? Is he not physically as able?
Mentally as able?"

Zami says, "hold that thought Delanar."
Zami says, "so what would you change in our background Nils?"

Broncalo coughs and interjects something: "There is no Sardaukar school,
per se. Remember, that no one knows from where the Sardaukar come,
really."

Nils says, "In fact, an inability to 'play the games', in this sense,
would probably be cause for dropping out. Perhaps, since he is the
bastard son of the Emperor, his father pulled strings so that he would
succeed. So we have a 'graduate', so to speak, with high academic
achievement but none of the personal martial ability of a traditional
Sardaukar."

Nils says, "That is, bastard grandson."

Broncalo notes he's the son of a bastard son of an Emperor. The
grandson.

Zami says, "So.....Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. The son of an
Imperial Noukker (a bastard child of an Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some
of the best schooling available on Kaitain. While in school, he
learned fast, but no matter how hard he tried, couldn't play the games
the others could. He graduated with high academic achievements, but
none of the personal martial ability of a traditional Sardaukar. ...""

Kirc doesn't want to sound rude, 'But what is the purpose of this?'

Zami says, "we are discussing backgrounds Kirc and the development of
backgrounds and character profiles..."

Nils says, "He must endure a good deal of emnity from his fellow
students, who resent that he is, for all intents and purposes, exempt
from the grueling physical activity that they must endure, due his
relatives in the higher echelons of the Sardaukar establishment."

Broncalo points Kirc to http://www.fremen.org/muds/dune3/list-archives/dune3-players/1998/10/msg00000.html.

Zami says, "now... Delanar... you had a question... why he can't play
them..."

Zami says, "what sort of reasons should someone come up with and why?"

Rosler waves goodnight.
Rosler walks to the south and passes through the Double Doors.
Rosler has left.

Delanar throws out a few suggestions, "Could be just general physical
weakness; he's a weakling. Perhaps he had an accident as a small
child, ended up with a punctured lung/broken bones which never quite
healed properly. If it were an accident which was someone else's
fault, he may well end up resenting that person for having 'ruined'
his life."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Zami nods her head, "all excellent suggestions and things that will
affect the person as they RP.... so judging from what Nils has added,
what would you add/change/delete.

Delanar says, "Weakened by a childhood accident which left him with
severely reduced lung capacity, Joseph grew a deep-seated bitterness
towards his closest friend who had prevented him from participating
and possibly excelling in his training."

Zami says, "okay... added..."

Zami says, "What do folks think about our Joseph so far?"

Broncalo says, "His friend was the only one who prevented him from such
activities? Why did this friend have so much influence?"

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. The son of an Imperial Noukker
(a bastard child of an Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some of the best
schooling available on Kaitain. While in school, he learned fast, but no
matter how hard he tried, couldn't play the games the others could. He
must endure a good deal of emnity from his fellow students, who resent
that he is, for all intents and purposes, exempt from the grueling
physical activity that they must endure, due his relatives in the higher
echelons of the Sardaukar establishment. In turn, weakened by a
childhood accident which left him with severely reduced lung capacity,
Joseph grew a deep-seated bitterness towards his closest friend who had
prevented him from participating and possibly excelling in his training.

Nils likes Delanar's suggestion. "And reduced lung capacity is not easy
to prove...his classmates may not believe him, thinking he's just a
weakling and is making this all up."

Delanar erps and slots in, ".... towards his closest friend who had
caused the accident (fencing?) and thus had prevented him from ..."

Zami says, "okay... changed."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. The son of an Imperial Noukker
(a bastard child of an Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some of the best
schooling available on Kaitain. While in school, he learned fast, but no
matter how hard he tried, couldn't play the games the others could. He
must endure a good deal of emnity from his fellow students, who resent
that he is, for all intents and purposes, exempt from the grueling
physical activity that they must endure, due his relatives in the higher
echelons of the Sardaukar establishment. In turn, weakened by a
childhood accident which left him with severely reduced lung capacity,
Joseph grew a deep-seated bitterness towards his closest friend who had
caused the accident (fencing?) and thus had prevented him from
participating and possibly excelling in his training.

Zami says, "okay... how does Joseph look so far?"

Delanar pokes up a hand.

Zami says, "Delanar... go ahead."

Delanar says, "We know he has a father. Who is his mother? Does he have
any siblings? Does he know them? What does he think of them? Reason
for inclusion: family often have a high impact on the personality of
an individual."

Zami nods, "You know the next question Delanar... add away your
contribution to Joseph.

Rigel walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Rigel has arrived.

Delanar grins and gets typing, "His mother was keen on marrying into
royal blood, even if it is not legitimate, so theirs was a loveless
marriage. He had a beauty on his arm, while she had a line into
bastardised power. Joseph was an only child; an attempt to add some
feeling to the union. Doted on by his father, who could see no wrong
in his progeny, the attempt was only half successful: his mother grew
to see Joseph only as a pawn to amassing further influence."

Zami says, "okay... added to the profile..."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. The son of an Imperial Noukker
(a bastard child of an Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some of the best
schooling available on Kaitain. His mother was keen on marrying into
royal blood, even if it is not legitimate, so theirs was a loveless
marriage. He had a beauty on his arm, while she had a line into
bastardised power. Joseph was an only child; an attempt to add some
feeling to the union. Doted on by his father, who could see no wrong in
his progeny, the attempt was only half successful: his mother grew to
see Joseph only as a pawn to amassing further influence.
While in school, he learned fast, but no matter how hard he tried,
couldn't play the games the others could. He must endure a good deal of
emnity from his fellow students, who resent that he is, for all intents
and purposes, exempt from the grueling physical activity that they must
endure, due his relatives in the higher echelons of the Sardaukar
establishment. In turn, weakened by a childhood accident which left him
with severely reduced lung capacity, Joseph grew a deep-seated
bitterness towards his closest friend who had caused the accident
(fencing?) and thus had prevented him from participating and possibly
excelling in his training.

Zami says, "So... how does he look?"

Gaijin says, "What interests him? Does he have a driving force?"

Zami turns to Gaijin... "Why is that important?"

Gaijin says, "Well, most of us have found something important to spend
our time on. It shapes our decisions each day."

Zami says, "What do you think Joseph is interested in?"

Nils goes for the physical profile if no one else does. "Slightly weak,
not overly muscular...but with an impeccably clean uniform. Shoes
always kept shined, metals always gleaming. A lint brush in his
holster. The self-important miliary bureaucrat personified."

Gaijin says, "I'd say revenge."

Nils says, "Did you mean how he looks physically, Z?"

Zami asks Nils to hold that thought for a moment.

Gaijin says, "And making everyone else's life as hard as his has been."

Zami says, "okay... I added that on Gaijin..."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Zami is still working on the profile, "But a description is important as
well... one that suits the background you've given him..."

Zami says, "okay... can anyone tell me... what in the world does Joseph
do now?"

Nils says, "Military bureaucrat?"

Gaijin says, "Like Nils said, a middle level bureaucrat in the admin
side of the Sardaukar."

Zami says, "why that occupation?"

Gaijin says, "Perfect spot to make people miserable with paperwork."

Delanar chuckles, "Revenge by red-tape?"

Temp Character Profile/NEW - Set.

Zami nods, "good... how did he get this job?"

Gaijin says, "One last string-pull from dear old daddy?"

Delanar says, "His high academic grades, too."

Gaijin says, "I like that better..."

Zami says, "okay...does anyone else have input in the room?"

Nils prods his faction member(s). Come on, guys...

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Zami tilts her head, "okay... does Joseph have a name?
Zami says, "is Joseph enough of a name?"

Rivelo walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Rivelo has arrived.

Zami asks again, "Is Joseph enough of a name?

Rigel says, "Joseph Prosek..er never mind"

Rivelo shouts, "Joseph and the Magic Technicolor Kevlar-bullet-proof
Coat of Invisibility +1!"

Boris walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Boris has arrived.

Zami raises an eyebrow at Rivelo.

Gaijin is rotfl...

Rigel says, "A measly +1 you havn't played enough Dungeons and Dragons"

Zami says, "is that the name we wish to give this character?"

Delanar says, "He needs a surname, something to reflect his lineage."

Rigel says, "Corrino?"
Rigel says, "Oh no he's not legitamate"

Nils looks to the Baron. "Come on, Bear, give our boy a name."

Boris says, "You mean this profiled guy?"

Zami nods.

Asaf'nor walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Asaf'nor has arrived.

Boris says, "Suleiman.""
Boris says, "Kerim."

Gaijin applauds.

Gaijin says, "for Suleiman."

Zami says, "is that a first or last name?"

Gaijin says, "Last, I think."

Delanar thinks even Kerim Suleiman is a viable name.

Boris says, "Either way works. Is all you needed a name?"

Boris says, "I was going to make another suggestion."

Zami says, "well... what do you think Boris... do you think the profile
is okay?"

Zami says, "go ahead."

Boris says, "Actually, it neatly sidesteps most of the problems I run
into with profiles. I think Joseph is off to a good start. Here's my
beef with most profiles I receive: they use too many adjectives and
not enough examples."

Cesare walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Cesare has arrived.

Zami nods to Boris, "kinda like how we started?"

Cesare looks around confusedly.

Boris says, "For instance, I don't want to read in a profile that a guy
is cruel. I want to see something he did that was cruel. I don't want
to read that a guy is rich. I want to see something he did that shows
how rich he is."

Boris says, "In other words, a profile should show, not tell."

Delanar thinks that's good advice just generally for RP: show, don't
tell.

Boris says, "I've been asked to give an example of a bad profile:)"

Zami nods.

Zami says, "Asaf... did you want to say something?"

Asaf'nor rubs his chin, "It's not at all bad in many respects. I don't
think I have a problem with anything that is there... except some
confusing grammar. However, there are some things omitted. There is a
tendnency for some people to take a Freudian route and link a person's
entire personallity to his childhoods. IMHO, that's all poppy-cock.
Rahter than spend 5/6th on his childhood and a brief mention of his
life in the Saruakar, I'd focus on the recent. After all, what defines
a Sarduakar most but his rank and work? Yes, family is very important
in the feudal society, but the Sardaukar are one of the groups tha is
it not a main focus.

Boris says, "Now, admittedly, the sort of chars I get sent to me may be
different than those sent to the Atreides or any of those 'good
guys.':) But about once a week I get an profile of essentially the
same person. They usually use the same phrases. A bad-ass loner, clad
usually in black, with no respect for authority, and bordering on the
insane. Yawn."

Cesare chuckles and sympathizes.

Zami chuckles at Boris's description, "agreed."

Asaf'nor smiles at Boris, "his parents are dead or he's an orphan too,
right Boris?

Boris nods at Asaf emphatically. "and all he seeks is revenge against a
cold cruel world, man!"

Zami says, "so... asaf'nor... what would you change/add in our
profile... please write that for us."

Boris says, "Clearly, Asaf knows this guy. Oddly, the profile is
rewritten about once a week by totally separate players who think this
is the most original concept ever thought of."

Asaf'nor says, "About my remark, I see so many people who have detailed
childhoods and teen years laid out, but the last 20 years they spent
learning their trade or in different jobs just pass by in a sentence
or two."

Kirc says, "Evil is infinitely more difficult to explain and design for
RP sake than good is. One of the primary failings of a lot of MU*s I
have encountered is the lack of viable, well designed and well played
villains. No evil, no conflict and conflict is the lifeblood of a good
MU* IMHO"

Nils says, "As the head of one of the 'good' houses, I get the opposite,
but it's about as conventional. They come from good families...usually
from some alvst House Minor I've never heard of. They're hard working
and loyal, rational and intelligent. They have nice, uneventful
childhoods and are rapidly promoted into the Alvstad service."

Nils suggests that he and Boris have some sort of exchange program ;)

Delanar sponges the complaints up to put to work on her own profile.

Boris says, "See, I would have no objections if they were a bit more
well-described. Or if they used more of the 'show, don't tell'
principle. Or showed humor. Humor works for me, in the right
capacity."

Asaf'nor says, "I like the 'making people miserable with paperwork'
remark, but I'd like more. How did he get this position? Where is he
going (or in this case is it a dead end)? An example, like Boris
mentioned, of some major person who's life he made hell because of
spite. Just flesh out that last paragraph... and IMHO, you could flesh
it out at the expense of some of the details at the top."

Boris concurs with Asaf.

Zami says, "flesh away asaf."
Zami says, "tell us what to write."
Zami says, "tell us what to remove."

Zami tilts her head at Asaf...

Zami notes you can make one suggestion at a time... you don't have to
rewrite it all yourself.

Asaf'nor picks up on the last paragraph redoing the last sentence, "He
landed his original desk job due to an excellent acedemic performance
and pulled strings by his father. Since that first job, he has climbed
the ranks of the pencil-pushers that all military organizations
require. He has advanced through solid skills and an outright
disregard for anyone but himself. His current position was gained by
sabotaging his superior officer's abilities to properly supply the
garrisons in a volatile sector. He of course orchestrated the affair
to make it appear as if the only reason anything was getting done was
due to his efforts. The downside to his method of advancement is that
someone better at the technique than he may find out the truth about
the various events that have propelled him to his present job."

Zami says, "okay... changed."

Asaf'nor thinks this thing will be very lo-ong if everyone adds pieces.

Zami says, "tell me Asaf... is he a natural sabotour?... or something he
learned? if so from where?"

Asaf'nor says, "It's not as much a skill as an attitude. He just has no
reservations about hurting others. No loyalty, no conscience, no
pity."

Cesare says, "Sounds like someone made for House Moritani!"

Boris says, "An upper-class sociopath."

Zami says, "should that statement be added?"

Boris says, "I like it, he's showing, not just telling."

Asaf'nor says, "It's an elaboration on that last sentence of the second
paragraph. It's something the player should have in his mind at
least... whether it needs to be laid out in such detail in text... You
can add it or leave it."

Zami nods, "okay... is everyone happy with our profile we've built
here?"

Cesare is.

Gaijin says, "Gotta run, folks, it's been fun!"

Zami smiles, "thank you for your help Gaijin.

Zami says, "Delandar? Kirc? Nils? Rigel?"

Kirc nods

Asaf'nor says, "What about his Fremen-BG maternal grandmother that
taught him Voice and the weirding way? Or the fact his great-great
grandfather was a GUild Navigator and he has limited presence...
limited because he's never tried the spice?"

Rigel says, "Long..but looks good to me"
Rigel grins. "Hey!
Rigel says, "A failed Kwizatz Haderach"
Rigel says, "They're mentioned in the book"

Delanar could find another thousand things to add in, but they'd be
somewhat minor. The grammar limps, but otherwise it's solid.

Zami says, "great... I just wanted to add on a couple of things. There
are a few spelling and grammar errors in there. I recommend checking
that. Profiles are personal, only you and your faction head are
required to see it... yet you can ask others to help and advise you.
AND, as Asaf'nor is trying to point out, please try to keep it in
theme... keep in mind the setting that we're working with. The
examples he's given are extreme for this time period and should
therefore not even be considered."

Zami wraps it up, "Thanks everyone for coming... I want to make sure I
get you guys out of here so you can still have time to RP before the
night is over. A log of this even will be posted on the web."

Temp Character Profile(#1312n)
Original Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. Joseph is all powerful
and all knowing. Don't mess with him.

Joseph Suleiman's Background: Joseph was born on Kaitain. The son of an
Imperial Noukker (a bastard child of an Emperor), Joseph enjoyed some of
the best schooling available on Kaitain. His mother was keen on marrying
into royal blood, even if it is not legitimate, so theirs was a loveless
marriage. He had a beauty on his arm, while she had a line into
bastardised power. Joseph was an only child; an attempt to add some
feeling to the union. Doted on by his father, who could see no wrong in
his progeny, the attempt was only half successful: his mother grew to
see Joseph only as a pawn to amassing further influence.
While in school, he learned fast, but no matter how hard he tried,
couldn't play the games the others could. He must endure a good deal of
emnity from his fellow students, who resent that he is, for all intents
and purposes, exempt from the grueling physical activity that they must
endure, due his relatives in the higher echelons of the Sardaukar
establishment. In turn, weakened by a childhood accident which left him
with severely reduced lung capacity, Joseph grew a deep-seated
bitterness towards his closest friend who had caused the accident
(fencing?) and thus had prevented him from participating and possibly
excelling in his training. He has made it his point to enact revenge,
making everyone else's life as hard as his has been.
He landed his original desk job due to an excellent acedemic
performance and pulled strings by his father. Since that first job, he
has climbed the ranks of the pencil-pushers that all military
organizations require. He has advanced through solid skills and an
outright disregard for anyone but himself. His current position was
gained by sabotaging his superior officer's abilities to properly supply
the garrisons in a volatile sector. He of course orchestrated the affair
to make it appear as if the only reason anything was getting done was
due to his efforts. The downside to his method of advancement is that
someone better at the technique than he may find out the truth about the
various events that have propelled him to his present job.

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