Econ Meeting #2 10/15/99

[Car <wahye@yahoo.com>]

The econ system is up and running should anyone like
to use it.  This period will be shorter than normal so
we can catch the system back up to where it should be.
 Any questions or problems using this new system,
please feel free to contact Zami online.

------


=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Log file from Dune3.

Vittorio says, "That anything like the Dynamic Space thingie that was floating around a while back?"

You say, "we call it dspace and we don't use it here..."

You say, "Folks... let's start this meeting."

Megpol says, "sorry, whats an econ"

Dominic says, "Economics"

Vittorio shuts up, and start paying attention.

Megpol says, "Oc i'll just sit back and listen"

Megpol says, "DON'T look at me!"

You say, "as before... I am open to questions even after this session so please feel free to hound me if you like."

Megpol says, "certainly"

Jenaa says, "Megpol...please keep your comments to a minimum in the open room. Thanks."

You say, "econ, as those who have been around for a bit, got put aside for a bit so we can build this newer system... for the most part, the system hasn't changed... you have your contracts, your bids, your profits."

You say, "the major change comes in the fact that you have more flexibilty in how you handle a contract..."

You say, "the 'in-between' econ periods happenings..."

You say, "this is simulated through an item we call HR units... human resource units..."

You say, "they represent a working force and what is required to maintain that working force for an economic period..."

You say, "each house has HRs that they have both gained from their fief and from the contracts they own..."

You say, "the HRs that you have with your fief represent the workforce that you have on your home planet... in a normal situation, you can only use 1/2 of those folks on a contract... this is simulate the need to have workers still on your planet producing your fief crop..."

You say, "now I say normal... because there are extreme instances, which we'll talk about later..."

You say, "the HRs that you gain with the contract represent those workers that stayed with the contract once the change of hands had occurred... this is similar to what we saw happen when Atreides took over the Arrakis contract at the start of Dune... some but not all of the folks stayed to work for Atreides..."

You say, "the final piece of the change, and perhaps the most drastic in the system... is that you can use your HRs in other contracts beyond your own..."

You say, "ie, you can loan your workers to a contract that is owned by another House for a cut in their profit at the end of the year..."

Dominic raises his hand

Zami nods to castamir, "go ahead."

Castamir smiles, "is it possible to get an HR from another house permenantly?"

Megpol says, "May I ask a question"

Takoshi raises his hand.

You say, "meaning can your HRs increase and another house's decrease?"

Castamir says, "yes"

Castamir says, "but on a permenant basis (not just a loan, like the difference between a rent and ownerhip)"

Megpol says, "Is this the landspread council that akaru's missing"

Zami nods, "that is possible... the system is flexible enough to handle it... however as that is an unusual case, outside the normal econ dealings, it's done by RP and then an admin has the power to set it perminently.

Castamir nods, "okie

You say, "Dominic."

Dominic says, "But for a contract you hold, you have to contribute at least some HR units, right?"

Dominic says, "to work it"

You say, "system-wise, no... realisticly... would you want your contract run by all folks you don't know or trust?"

Dominic says, "no. i have another question, but i will wait until others have asked some first."

Hasan raises his hand.

You say, "Megpol... did you have a question about this system specificly?"

Megpol says, "No, just that I was worryed that my freind was missing it"

You say, "Takoshi"

Takoshi says, "More of a 'Repercussions' question really....I was wondering how will this be dealt with ICly? I.e. will the house head use the system himself, or assign it to, say, an accountant or advisor? And how could house heads get lesser members of their house involved? I suppose it's upto the heads themselves, but I just wondered if anyone had any general thoughts on the issue..."

You say, "the actual econ system allows for the House head to name several people within the same house as controllers of the system..."

Vittorio says, "Moritani is planning on hiring in a financial advisor to handle most of this for me. [With FH oversight, of course.]"

Hasan gives you the card for American Express Financal Advisors.

You say, "the head can authorize another person to work on the system for that house... and that grants them full access to the commands available..."

Megpol raises a hand, "May I speak to you, Zami after

You say, "in addition to this... the idea here is that houses may have to go out and RP with their diplomats or others to acquire deals with other houses and get the HRs they need."

Hasan raises his hand. (again).

Takoshi nods "I thought so... and the diplomat side is an advantage :)"

Zami nods.

You say, "that's what we're hoping for."

Castamir winks at Taki

Megpol rasies a hand, "I have some sensible question I would like to ask Zami, after ward"

You say, "is that it?"

Takoshi nods :)

You say, "Dom?"

Takoshi pokes castamir

Dominic says, "When you type +contract/info ecaz, for example. it lists several Houses at the bottom and shows HR contributed. Could you explain that please?"

You paged Hasan with 'MAVs.'.

Castamir says, "no it does not ..."

Dominic says, "no what does not?"

Hasan says, "Freak."

Zami nods, "the information on the bottom represents the public records of what transactions have been made for a econ period on that contract... ie, which houses have put towards the contract...

Castamir says, "Show the line of HR contributers"

You say, "only those with authorization to access the CHOAM system can see them at the moment..."

You say, "that's why you can't Cast... ;)"

Castamir says, "ahhh ... yeah fogot about that :)"

Castamir sniffs, and logs on as his other char

You say, "we've debated and are still debating if this should become more public or less... and actually... if you have an opinion on this, I'd love to hear it."

Dominic pages: then if the moritanis hold the contract, why do the corrinos put HR towards it?

Aurarius walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Aurarius has arrived.

You paged Dominic with 'what do you mean?'.

Dominic pages: type +contract/info arrakis. shows corrino contributing 90 HR towards the contract.

You paged Dominic with 'right... that's their choice.'.

Dominic pages: but you just said if you hold a contract you must use HR for it?

You say, "actually... Dom has a good question... if you don't mind Dom... to bring it to the floor instead?"

Dominic says, "ok"

You say, "this question was why does a contract show another house contributing to it but the house that owns it doesn't..."

You say, "is that a correct paraphrase?"

Dominic says, "Concerns the Arrakis spice contract. Zami said you must contribut HR if you own it. And yet, another House is contributing all the HRs, not Moritani."

Dominic says, "seems like the opposite of what was just said. :)"

Zami nods, "let me clarify... systematicly... meaning the econ system itself, you could contribute to whatever contracts you would like to....

You say, "however... thinking in terms of what that means RP/IC-wise... that means that working the contract of that planet and stationed on that planet are few, if any of your own men..."

Assaf has disconnected.

Takoshi has disconnected.

You say, "the IC/RP question then arrises, would you want that state... and the answer is it depends on the decisions of your house..."

You say, "does that help any?"

Dominic says, "so then, you can enjoy the profits of a contract without spending HR units to work it then?"

Akaru walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Akaru has arrived.
Akaru waves

Megpol says, "I'm going because this is going right over my head, but i'll speak to zami, iyou can let me know when it ends, Its is to do with this."

Megpol says, "Come on drunk wed better leave"

Megpol walks to the south and passes through the Double Doors.

Megpol has left.

You say, "you enjoy what might be left... by a house placing HRs into your contract, you are assuring them in return a percentage of your profit from that contract."

Vittorio raises a hand.

You say, "the more outside help you use, the mor eit eats into your own profits."

Dominic says, "is that percentage a direct relation to the amount of HR used?"

Zami nods.

Dominic says, "ahhh."

Akaru walks to the south and passes through the Double Doors.
Akaru has left.

Takoshi has connected.

Takoshi coughs.

You say, "Hasan."

Zami hands Tak a cough drop.

Hasan looks around "Oh? Me? OK...."

Zami smiles.

Takoshi throws the cough drop at his sister for disconnecting him :)

Hasan says, "Do any non-LC or NPC factions have HR's? Smugglers, BG, Guild..,?"

Hasan says, "And I have a follow-up."

You say, "yes... the Guild has some... as they have a vested interest in keeping the contracts okay... the Smugglers do as well... they have been coded into the system to appear in either the form of more HRs at the start of a period or as themselves on the contract... for the most part they are pure NPCs and to be played offline."

Hasan says, "so, they can be contracted?"

Zami nods.

Hasan says, "cool. Question The Second:"

Hasan says, "Can you inrease profits by overstaffing the contacts? Will this have any negative impact?"

You say, "btw I'll be handling for the startnig period..."

You say, "oh... good question!"

You say, "yes... overstaffing gives you a better chance at increasing profits..."

Hasan dances a hornpipe at the praise.

Aurarius grins

You say, "there is still a factor of luck that can alter the results..."

You say, "in addition to this... the HRs of any one contract... can and will change with each econ period..."

Hasan says, "But it's not directly proportional."

You say, "luck is totally random."

Hasan says, "Profits vs. HR overstaffing, I mean"

You say, "ah... no... it's slightly asymtotic?... i think I spelled that wrong."

Hasan shakes his loaded dice and flips his marked cards. "Luck is never totally ramdom."

Aurarius grins

Zami grins.

Hasan says, "I mean, putting a whole buncha HR's into a little contract will never make it a big prfot-maker, will it?"

Zami wonders if Hasan has seen the movie Pi.

Hasan says, "Or Profit"

Takoshi noddles.

You say, "right... eventually... you'll get to a point where the more you put in, nothing will happen an dit will level off."

Takoshi mutters "There is no order, only Chaos.."

Zami chuckles at Tak.

Aurarius raises a hand

Out of his many hands ...

You say, "Vitt?"

Vittorio says, "Does the system handle the split of profits or is that done later, via RP and admin intervention? (In the case of Houses splitting HR's on a contract)"

You say, "the system handles it."

Vittorio nods. "Ok."

You say, "Aur?"

Aurarius says, "yes ..."

Aurarius says, "umm, from what I gather .. HRs are very rare ... for example the Venhei homeworld has a yield of 20 HRs, correct?"

You say, "the Fief contract?"

Aurarius says, "yes"

Aurarius says, "from what I gather ... or am I wrong?"

You say, "the fief contract for Venhei... is actually 40..."

Aurarius says, "40"

You say, "20 of which represent the pool that the planet could do without and still operate at profit..."

You say, "the other 20 represent the staff you need to run the planet itself."

Aurarius says, "I see ... so ... basically now the Venhei have"

Aurarius says, "sorry, they have 20 + 55 +50 HRs?"

Zami nods.

Aurarius says, "This means that Venhei have 125 HRs ... butthey need 155 ... correct?"

Zami nods.

Aurarius says, "That means NO one can get the HR needed for any contract"

Aurarius says, "unless you gain those little seen and unimportant ones"

Aurarius says, "or there will be a charity house which gives outHRs"

You say, "you'll have to deal with other houses to acquire the HRs... some will have more than they need... some will have to come from groups like the Corrino, Guild, or smugglers."

Aurarius says, "but even they have a limit, no?"

Zami nods, "they have a set amount..."

You say, "so realisticly, we could see a period where not all contracts get all the HRs they require..."

Aurarius says, "from what I can see... most periods will go like that"

You say, "well... one other thing to remember is that the HRs for a contract is not constant..."

Aurarius nods

Aurarius says, "they change? can you take HRs from an old contract of yours?"

You say, "not if you don't still own it."

You say, "you mean to keep as part of your fief contract?"

Takoshi has disconnected.

Aurarius says, "no ... take with you ..."

Hasan says, "He means from other contracts that you no longer hold."

Zami nods, "it is possible... just like the example of keeping the HRs perminently from another house... the emphasize though is on it has to be RP'ed out.

Aurarius says, "No ... take for example whathappend in thebook"

Aurarius says, "during the handover, all the guys on the planet were given a choice either to stay on Arrakis or go with the Harkonnen (as per of teh deal of teh handover)"

Zami nods.

Aurarius says, "if they went withthe Harkos, I imagine they's stay there .... and work on Giedi ... right?"

Aurarius says, "that means ... that you can get HRs from a fief of yours."

Zami nods.

Hasan says, "Or become part of the floating labor pool that a House can buy with solaris."

Zami nods.

Hasan shuts up.

You say, "don't... you're absolutely correct Hasan."

Megpol walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.

Megpol has arrived.

Aurarius says, "and from the book ... it looks pretty much like 50 per cent (I canget the exact figure if you wish) And since they were Harkonnen ... one can imagine not a lot jumped on them (and yet, enough to give problems to leto)"

Aurarius says, "a floating pool???"

Aurarius says, "no one is floating :)"

Aurarius says, "everyone who is in the Imperium is owned by somoene else, no?"

Hasan says, "Of course, I'm right. I just don't want to share any information with a Vehei. ;)"

You say, "the 'floating pool' represents the labor force that exists in houses we can't represent here."

Aurarius says, "They were offered either to stay, or go ... not go whereever they wanted"

Aurarius says, "that is a completely different thing"

Hasan says, "But if they were "owned" by the Harks, they would not have had a choice."

Hasan says, "they would have been forced to go."

Dominic says, "I am sure there are merecenaries in the Imperium"

Megpol walks to the south and passes through the Double Doors.

Megpol has left.

Zami nods to Hasan and Aur... "you're both right."

Hasan says, "Tagir Mohandis in 'Children""

Hasan notes that Tagir was excellently played on "Regent of Dune".

Zami grins.

Assaf has connected.

You say, "the point that I need to make clear... the HRs... in all contracts can vary... the REASON why the HR varied is up for interpretation based on RP."

Aurarius idles :(

You say, "it's not system run... it's run by us... by what we do and what happens."

Zami nods to Aur.

Dominic raises his hand.

Zami nods to Dom.

Dominic says, "Can rp of contracts ignore cause and effect? Example, if another House contributes HR to one you own, can rp modify so you still get all the profits?"

Zami nods.

Hasan says, "You can transfer Solaris manually."

You say, "we can do that... I've coded it so that each step of the close-out of the econ period can be stopped and the results ultered... this is important for than just that case... for instance, if for some reason we need to show that despite all the HRs, Ecaz got a plague and is doing badly... we can still do that."

You say, "altered even."

Zami can't spell today... :P

You say, "anyone else?"

Dominic says, "another follow up question, if you dont mind. :)"

Hasan says, "Scroll up"

Hasan says, "ops. Mispose"

Zami nods.

You say, "go ahead."

Rahven walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Rahven has arrived.

Dominic says, "So lets say the the emperor decides he wants house rastanyev to become powerful. he can contribute all the hrs for their contracts and still give them all the profits through rp."

Zami nods.

You say, "though... I'd personally lynch him if I were IC... ;)"

Dominic says, "dont think that would really stop him."

Zami chuckles.

Hasan raises his hand.

Zami doesn't think so either... probably find herself at the bottom of som Sarduakar's boots.

Zami nods to Hasan.

Hasan pages: You were going to show new commands?

You paged Hasan with 'was that your question or did you have another?'.

Hasan pages: That was it

You say, "okay... the new commands are uploaded onto the system already..."

You say, "there are 4 that most folks need to deal with... I've got 3 in the help files already and just loaded the 4th onto the system itself..."

You say, "the first 3 are +hr, +cash, +conv...."

You say, "to access these items, they must be done through the GUild... thus they are only accessibly in the CHOAM meeting room over in the foothills district."

You say, "+hr allows you to grant hrs to a particular contract... very simple, +hr <contract>=#"

You say, "+cash allows you to say, hey... I don't want to use those workers this period, I'll go ahead and release them from their duties... thus saving your house some money... +cash <HR amount you want to cash out>"

You say, "+conv allows you to say,hey... I need more HRs and would like to acquire them... these are the 'floating pool' HRs that you can obtain... they will cost you solaris. +conv <how much solaris you want to spend>"

Aurarius has disconnected.

You say, "the last command is +choam/mod... this gives you the ability to adjust your expenses for the period..."

Megpol walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Megpol has arrived.
Megpol raises a hand

You say, "the last command you can access anywhere and has always existed... but not only admin run... how it's open to faction heads and those authorized to use the choam commands."

Gil walks in from Lower Lobby through the Double Doors.
Gil has arrived.

You say, "the other changes are cosmetic... the +contract/info shows you who contributed..."

You say, "the +choam/status shows you how you're doing and where you contributed."

You say, "that's all the new commands."

Megpol waves

You say, "btw, if you are authorized... you can use the commands now... they are open for RP already."

Gil sits down - quiet as a church mouse

Megpol says, "Zami, I do have some questions but they will have to wait"

You say, "if you want to play around with them you can... as I don't think anything you do will damage the system... i've got it all audit trailed so we can step it back and fix almost anything."

Assaf has disconnected.

You say, "does that help Hasan?"

Hasan says, "Very much. Thanks."

Zami nods, "if you come across any bugs or any ideas to improve the system.. please feel free to @mail me at any time....

Megpol has disconnected.

You say, "or if you don't understand something... page away."

Castamir has connected.

Zami waves hi.

You say, "anything else I can help with?"

Castamir sniffles and got disco'ed

Zami sorries...